Won't start

[69GTOby]

I turn the key, and I hear nothing. The engine wont turn or anything. I tried to jump it using my van, and there was still no power at all. Fuse?

[REED_RACING]

Pull the starter and see if it's good first. Make sure all of your cables and connections are clean and tight.

[Survivor]

Could be bad ignition switch.

[LFSADRG]

Do the lights work? Are you getting power anywhere? If so then get a test light and see if there is power getting to the alternator, the wire that connects to the alternator with a nut - its constant hot. Check to see if the solenoid is getting power by using the test light on the hot side. Turn the key and see if the ignitor wire on the solenoid gets power as well. If power is getting to the alternator and starter solenoid then it shoudnt be a fuse. Do you have headers on the car? If so, they fry solenoids when there isnt a heat shield on. Also check neutral saftey switch under the column. There should be a purple wire plugged into to it, check for power on that guy too. Reseat the two connectors on the ignition switch as well.

If the car has power ie lights, accessories work then focus on:

solenoid
neutral safety switch
ignition switch

No power then check for the fusable link. It is usually in the wire loom by the fire wall or when the loom drapes over the engine.

If neither of those are it buy my LeMans so I can buy that 65 GTO in the other post. :D d00d, its gotsa 4-speed

[69GTOby]

Pull the starter and see if it's good first. Make sure all of your cables and connections are clean and tight.

I know the starter and cables are all good, because I recently replaced them about 4 months ago.

[69GTOby]

I put a new stero in it also about 4 months ago, and it won't turn on anymore.

This problem...it is deffinately electrical. I had the car worked on a while ago, and the guy put a new carb. on it, and a new alternator. I could also tell he messed with the wiring. It did run perfectly, but then when I got it back, it wasn't long until it died on me. Turned out it was a wiring thing. THere were these wires that wern't connected well enough. SO, I reconnected them, and then it ran fine. Then, about a week later, I parked it, and it wouldn't start again, just no power.

SO, I undid all the wires this guy put together (really poor job), and I reconnected them all, and there is still no power... No power to the stereo either, I think its a fuse.......

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Where are you located?

[Red_Rider]

I always vote for the neutral safety switch. Try it in park and neutral. Even try moving the selector with the key turned to the start position. JUST DON'T START IT IN GEAR.

[LFSADRG]

So the car has zer0 power. No lights no nothing, right? It just sits there like a dead fish? Then I would find the fusable link. Since the stereo was installed wacky it probably zapped the fusable link and the entire car is off. Check in the wiring loom that runs on top of the engine. Peel off the tape, remove the wire cover tube, and find the link. Only other thing I can think of is the battery ground, if the car has zer0 power.

One more thing, on the fuse block there are accessory ports. Turn the key to the on position and tap each port with a test light to see if any power is running through the fuse block.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Sounds more and more like the battery was drained dead dead dead. Look at the problem in simpler terms after all it WAS just fine

[LFSADRG]

Sounds more and more like the battery was drained dead dead dead. Look at the problem in simpler terms after all it WAS just fine


True that. Use the battery out of the van you tried to jump the GTO.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Maybe the use of a voltmeter on system?

[69GTOby]

Ok, 2 terminals on the battery: the negative, black, goes to the block, or ground. The red, positive, goes to the starter. There is also a little red wire coming off of the positive terminal, and it goes right through the firewall, and then it goes to one of those connectors where you have to clamp down on each side to connect 2 wires. One problem, I can't find the wire that it connects too....it just goes through the firewall, and ends! Anyone know where this wire goes?

Btw, thanks for all of your suggestions. I will look into them more thuroughly once I get this wire connected, asuming a problem still exists after that.

THANKS.

[LFSADRG]

Man, thats a tough one. I have my ignition box wired to the wire that you mention therefore it could be anything on your car. Didnt you mention that some guy installed a radio? Might be the hot wire for it. Get down to basics with a test light. Feel free to stop by and finish the wiring on my car to get practice. ;)

[69GTOby]

Yea, actually me and my Dad installed the radio, but I don't think that is relevant, because the car ran for a long time since it was installed, and it ran good. I don't know what to do.

O yea, and someone asked where I live, its Germantown MD.

I have to get the car running, not just for me and my Dad, but because we might move over the summer, and having a non-running car may cause some problems.

[69projects]

I've been watching this thread for a while and I can tell you, 69GTOby, that you're not going to get this properly fixed without some hands-on expertise. To get the car running for now you should A) get a power source that you're sure of (put a good battery in the car) B) by-pass all the car's wiring by running a positive wire to the positive side of the coil. C) cross connect the positive terminal at the starter (using a screw driver) to the solenoid on the starter. There will be some sparks and you should make sure you're wearing gloves. this will energize the starter and the car will turn over. When the car starts take the jumper (screwdriver) away. the direct wire to the coil will ensure that you have spark to the plugs. The car will start and you can drive it to a shop. DO NOT FORGET TO TURN THE IGNITION ON TO DRIVE THE CAR OTHERWISE YOUR STEERING WILL BE LOCKED.
If this doesn't work for you, get the hook and drag her to a pro.
Good luck

[69GTOby]

Sounds good thanks.

The car was running good for a while. Then, it wouldn't start anymore. I used to pump the gas to get it started, while holding the key turned. Then I had to Hold the key and the gas, and it sure sounded like it was gonna start, but once I let go of the key, it would rev back down. The carb is a leaker... My point is, even if I do get this wire thing figured out, it probably still wouldn't start, so maybe I need to throw in the towel, and take it to a pro like you suggested. Do you know any pros near germantown MD? Or maybe just someone that is handy enough to get it running good, and reliable.

[Goatnut]

I guess suggesting that you bring the car to the April car clinic might be out of the question!

[just a 72 goat]

get a wiring diagram, use a voltmeter, don't jump anything with a screwdriver , make or buy a remote starter switch/button,study the wiring diagram, trace your power leads, checking for voltage from batt to all components, make sure you have good ground to engine block, also install ground wire from batt to body near the battery, this should help

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

get a wiring diagram, use a voltmeter, don't jump anything with a screwdriver , make or buy a remote starter switch/button,study the wiring diagram, trace your power leads, checking for voltage from batt to all components, make sure you have good ground to engine block, also install ground wire from batt to body near the battery, this should help
Whats a 'voltmeter? remote starter?, you mean I can just buy a remote starter and it will start? I didn't know my car had any batt's. LOL

Sounds like the ignition switch may have failed, and or the resister wire in the harness, Now the fusible link may have failed, lots of possibilites. The big red wire that 'disappears after it goes through the firewall is connected to the back of the fuse panel and is the main buss(there we go with big words again), for the fuse box distrubution side so if you test the fuse box some of the posts will be 12 vdc positive when ignition is off and others will become active with the key 'on'. Do your testing like '72 goat' suggests. Just test everything and positively verify results. Good luck

[69projects]

Shucks a screwdriver always works for me.
(let me do it Boss - I always wanted to fix a transmission!)

[Survivor]

I grew up on a farm and prefer baling wire.

[just a 72 goat]

if ya meet me ask what I've used to start things, hammers, screwdrivers,jumper wires, baling wire,wrenches,just about anything

[69GTOby]

if ya meet me ask what I've used to start things, hammers, screwdrivers,jumper wires, baling wire,wrenches,just about anything

Wow, how would one go about starting a car like that?

[69GTOby]

Whats a 'voltmeter? remote starter?, you mean I can just buy a remote starter and it will start? I didn't know my car had any batt's. LOL

Sounds like the ignition switch may have failed, and or the resister wire in the harness, Now the fusible link may have failed, lots of possibilites. The big red wire that 'disappears after it goes through the firewall is connected to the back of the fuse panel and is the main buss(there we go with big words again), for the fuse box distrubution side so if you test the fuse box some of the posts will be 12 vdc positive when ignition is off and others will become active with the key 'on'. Do your testing like '72 goat' suggests. Just test everything and positively verify results. Good luck

OK, I need to connect that wire to the "back of the fuse panel" huh? Where exactly does it go? Why do i need to do all of this testing if this wire is not even connect to the fuse box, wont that be the problem?

[URHONOR]

It seems to have been nearly a year, with this won't start problem! Isn't this the same thread,that Mark had something to say about it? Lonnie????

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

It seems to have been nearly a year, with this won't start problem! Isn't this the same thread,that Mark had something to say about it? Lonnie????
Jeez Richard

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

OK, I need to connect that wire to the "back of the fuse panel" huh? Where exactly does it go? Why do i need to do all of this testing if this wire is not even connect to the fuse box, wont that be the problem?
the red wire that 'disappears' at the firewall should have 12 vdc positive if the battery is good. If you cannot verify this then you should get some professional help and pay attention. If you read this string there is more than enough information contained in it for any half car guy to find the problem.

[69GTOby]

Sorry guys, I have probably been a pain in the a$$ with this "won't start" stuff. It is really frustrating having the best car in the world sit outside my house, not running, and there is nothing I can do about it. I'm 15, my Dad has no time to help my, my brother is not interested etc... This is the only place I know to go to seek help. If it makes you feel any better I have progressed in my project. The wire that goes through the firewall, when touched to ground, SPRAKS. A good spark, so the battery is ok. I found a place on the fuse panel to mount that wire just so the starter will get power. Now the engine cranks, and revs up, but never starts. The fuel line is good, and there are no leeks under the car. The carburetor is getting fuel, but once I attempt to start it, fuel drips off of the carb on the driver side, and off of the throttle linkage. There is a puddle of unburned fuel on the manifold, and I can smell it too. Leaking gasket in the carb, what? Btw, thanks for all of your patience, and support.

[G6T8O]

Find a way to get it to the car clinic,then you'll have lots of help...

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

He's over in Jersey or NY I don't think it'll tow that far

[G6T8O]

I did'nt say it would be easy!!!

[Red_Rider]

I've followed this thread, and have seen a ton of good advice. Sometimes I wonder if 69GTOby is legitimate, or just someone having fun with our good nature and intentions. That said, if 69GTOby is a 15 year old working unsupervised, some of his comments make me worried about his safety. In the last post, we have gas running out of the carb and pooling. This is a great safety issue.

Moreover, he said he found a place to put the wire in the fuse block and now there is some electrical power, the car will "rev" but not run. My fear here is that, if this is legitimate, the kid may have mis-wired the fuse block and there could be a potential of an electrical fire. Tie the pool of gas with the electrical fire, and now we have lost a GTO, rather than save one.

Wires traditionally do not go through the firewall to the fuseblock. There is a wiring block on the firewall that transmits almost all of the power through the firewall to the back side of the fuseblock. In the engine compartment, there are a series of red wires that transmit power between the battery, alternator, and fuseblock. Many times, these wires have been tampered with, because they are excellent sources of power to run accessories. That being said, Mike and others gave the best advice: Volt meters, and test lights. A wiring diagram should be available on-line, or at the library. Personally, I bought one on eBay for one of my cars.

But back to my initial thought, "is this a legitimate thread?" I have my doubts, and have had them for some time. I don't know how to validate 69GTOby, however, if he is legitimate, I fear he will burn up the vehicle, and potentially himself. I would suggest that we pull this thread if 69GTOby can't be validated. And if he can be validated, I would suggest that he follow the advice given by using test some appropriate testing procedures.

[69GTOby]

Oooo come on. Safety is not an issue here. The only spark was when I accidentally touched the red wire to ground. Then I attached it to the fuse box temporarely just to get it running, and then I can drive it somewhere to be fixed professionally. Turns out I am having some carb diffaculty. The puddle of fuel is not that HUGE. If there were a fire, which the chances are very slim, there would only be enough fuel to feed the fire a couple of seconds. My safety should not be a concern. I guarentee there is more of a safety issue with the way people drive these cars. Burnouts, dragracing etc... which I have no problem with.

[69projects]

Yeah I agree this is all way too hard to manage seriously, I continue to watch but I will post no further pearls.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Sounds like bent valves to me, better watch out for those eyebrows. But really, take our advice and buy a manual and read it, comprehend it and it will be simple to figure out what exactly is your problem. If you are in school (and you should be) it would be a really cool project for auto shop.

[Goatnut]

Pleise send to me you bank account numbo. I promise I will than deposit 50 millian from my dead uncle (the late great King of Holtmania) hidden account. Because of you trust in me, I will give you 5 millian for your service. This shuld be plenty denaro to trailer you kar to good macanic for fixin fuel and lectrical problemo.

Tanks,
Measho

[LFSADRG]

Sell the GTO and buy a Hummer w/Dubs

Check this out:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/wrong.html

[69GTOby]

Alright I found my Dad's old GTO manual. I took the carb off, and I am in the process of rebuilding it. Any suggestions of a rebuild kit I should buy? I was wondering what the "secondary baffle" purpose would be. Does it just baffle sound, if so, do I need it? Also, how do I determine if my carb is for an automatic, or a manual tanny? The GTO is an auto, but I heard you can cap off some vacuum line to convert the manual carb to an auto. I just need to make sure I buy the right kit.

Btw, you guys are so funny.

[LFSADRG]

Rebuilding a QJet can be tricky. Call Summit or Jegs for a rebuild kit then buy this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0895863014/104-8580731-6918303?v=glance&n=283155. The flap on the secondarys runs on vacuum. You can adjust it with a hex key when it opens. Have fun setting the float and installing the rods into the jets!

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Take it to a carb shop and have it done. If you rebuild it with no experience or confidence and it doesn't run, well then what. A shop will set it all up right, so its ready to go. Post a picture of the car for us.

[69GTOby]

Alright, I am not going to give up on this project, but I am going to buy a new carburetor for the GTO. I talked to my Dad about it, and he thinks maybe we should just buy a new carburetor. Recently I was sucessful rebuilding a 5hp Tecumseh carburetor for my boat engine. I am improving my skills associated with rebuilding and tinkering with carburetors. I will rebuild this Q jet, and if nothing more, it will be good practice. As for the new carb, I have done some research, and the Demon carbs seem really good. I was thinking maybe a 725 Road Demon. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what carb I should buy? Thanks.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

I wouldn't recommend putting a 725 cfm carb on a motor with 300K, unless you can rebuild the engine

[69GTOby]

I wouldn't recommend putting a 725 cfm carb on a motor with 300K, unless you can rebuild the engine

650? Anything relatively close to 700? 670?

Holley? Demon?

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Look into buying another Quadrajet from Ames, or NPD, or some Pontiac parts dealers. Take the car to auto shop and get that bad boy on the road. And post a picture here

[G6T8O]

I have the original Q-jet on my 68 400,but while I was having the carb rebuilt I put A borrowed Holley 780 D/P on. Wow was I shocked at the difference. I have read that in order to be able to feel A "seat of the pants " difference there has to be at least A 20 horsepower change. Well I could tell the difference before and after.. I really missed the additional power when I put the Q-jet back on....

By the way it had about 130,000 mile on it at the time.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

No doubt Bill. I run a 6210 Holley spreadbore from a vette BBC on my HOTROD64. Look at this thread, this guy needs to figure out whats not right before he muddies up the river of diagnostic trails. lol

[G6T8O]

So true!!!

[69GTOby]

I think I deserve some credit for trying to get the car running. I love cars more than anything, and I know a lot about them, but I lack experience, a crucial factor in the mechanical world. How do you learn? You ask questions, and you give it a shot, and thats what I've been doing here. Anyway, I have done some research, and I really want to try one of these Demon carbs. I cannot find any Demon carbs that come in a spread bore design; however I read about someone on the internet that has a Demon on his GTO. I guess this means he got an adapter. Those are pretty cheat on Summit. What are your thoughts on these adapters? Would they rob me of some horsepower? I know people buy carb spacers for in between their carb and manifold. Apparently it can boost HP, and if nothing else, it will allow your carb to operate at a lower, more ideal temperature. This in mind, I am wondering if the adapter will, if nothing else allow the carb to run at cooler temperatures, while adapting form a spread bore to a square bore design; it's a win-win situation from what I can see. Is my theory correct? By the way, I really appreciate all of the help I have been given on the forum.

[G6T8O]

Had you considered replacing the intake manifold??

[LFSADRG]

Check for potatos in the tail pipe. Remove them for VTEC to kick in, y0.

[69GTOby]

Had you considered replacing the intake manifold??
Yea, I actually did consider this. I don't want to spend too much money at once though; therefore I did consider, at least taking it off, and cleaning the inside of it. Are you suggesting I buy a square bore intake manifold, if such a manifold exists for my application, which I am not aware of?

[69GTOby]

Check for potatos in the tail pipe. Remove them for VTEC to kick in, y0.


OK, I am getting really tired of your unnecessary, unhelpful coments. I don't even know where you get the idea that I think I am ghetto. "y0"? The only time I would say "y0" is if I am making fun of some kid who thinks he is ghetto. "Remove them for VTEC to kick in"? Are you suggesting that I am into Fast and the Furious, and foreign cars? Nothing makes me more furious than to see a Honda Civic with a multicolored body kit, a spoiler way to big, and wheels that are way to big... and most of all, the horrifying sound of a 4 banger with a stock 1" exhaust, and a huge muffler with a 4" tip at the end. Wow, the only thing you know about me is that I have a lot to learn about mechanics, which is perfectly understandable for a kid. Didn't your parents teach you "if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all"?

[G6T8O]

Yes that is my thinking.... you could keep an eye on Craigs list or another media for A used manifold... Might be easier than an adapter and add power and better gas mileage.... Just A thought..

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

I think I deserve some credit for trying to get the car running. I love cars more than anything, and I know a lot about them, but I lack experience, a crucial factor in the mechanical world. How do you learn? You ask questions, and you give it a shot, and thats what I've been doing here. Anyway, I have done some research, and I really want to try one of these Demon carbs. I cannot find any Demon carbs that come in a spread bore design; however I read about someone on the internet that has a Demon on his GTO. I guess this means he got an adapter. Those are pretty cheat on Summit. What are your thoughts on these adapters? Would they rob me of some horsepower? I know people buy carb spacers for in between their carb and manifold. Apparently it can boost HP, and if nothing else, it will allow your carb to operate at a lower, more ideal temperature. This in mind, I am wondering if the adapter will, if nothing else allow the carb to run at cooler temperatures, while adapting form a spread bore to a square bore design; it's a win-win situation from what I can see. Is my theory correct? By the way, I really appreciate all of the help I have been given on the forum.
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME'MONEY yet on a carb.
The reason you see the square bore carbs on racing engines is because thats what they are good for!!!!!!!!!!
If you install a square bore carb on the 400 it will have a flat spot. That is the reason a spread bore is used. We have had some fun with you here but you haven't listened to any of the good advice that has been given either. You haven't even gotten it running and your ready to install a Demon carb plus intake or spacer? NONE of the stock brackets, linkage, etc will fit if you do this. I have given you some very good diagnostic information to help you troubleshoot your no start and electrical issues and you haven't even dealt with them as of yet.
Lonnie it might be time to ban this guy from the forum.

[LFSADRG]

OK, I am getting really tired of your unnecessary, unhelpful comments bla bla bla bla "y0"?

Relax man. Doesnt really seem like any progress is being made on your car so why not check for potatos.

[69GTOby]

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME'MONEY yet on a carb.
The reason you see the square bore carbs on racing engines is because thats what they are good for!!!!!!!!!!
If you install a square bore carb on the 400 it will have a flat spot. That is the reason a spread bore is used. We have had some fun with you here but you haven't listened to any of the good advice that has been given either. You haven't even gotten it running and your ready to install a Demon carb plus intake or spacer? NONE of the stock brackets, linkage, etc will fit if you do this. I have given you some very good diagnostic information to help you troubleshoot your no start and electrical issues and you haven't even dealt with them as of yet.
Lonnie it might be time to ban this guy from the forum.

Of course I have tried some of your diagnostic methods. I used a test light, and figured out a lot of my fuses were blown, so I replaced those. I figured out the battery is ok, because I found a place on the fuse block to place the wire for power to the starter, and the engine was cranking. Some advice given to me was to consider some possible carburetor issues, so I took the carb off and began to rebuild it. Now I am considering a new carburetor, what is so bad about that? When the old one dies, you rebuild it or buy a better aftermarket carburetor, and I am now choosing to buy a new carb, because I am not so sure I am able to complete the rebuild any time soon. When I do rebuild the old carb, then I will have a nice spare to put on temporarely while I rebuild the Demon when it dies in 4 years, or whatever carb I decide to buy. You say: "You haven't even gotten it running and your ready to install a Demon carb plus intake or spacer", the whole point of installing these items are to make the car run. This issue is definitely carburetor related, because gas was dripping from the carb during cranking.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

The squarebore carb with an adapter plate is way wrong. It is not just a bolt on replacement, but after all you did successfully rebuild a 5hp tecumseh carb(whoopie). Good luck, you will see no more posts from me.

[69GTOby]

0-80555C Holley. Thats what I am going to get. Apparently it is a direct bolt on for GM Quadra-jet carburetors. It is basically my only choice, as opposed to getting a Jet, which is not a respectible brand compared to Holley, or a new Quadra-jet.

[69GTOby]

I got the new carb in the mail, and it looks really good. I used the new gasket, and bolted it on. I put on all of the necessary vacuum lines, and blocked off the unnecessary ones. I realize it will need some fine tuning, but I thought it would start, so that I could tweak it according to what I hear. But, it won't start, its doing basically what it did before, but it is a little more profound now. It sounds like it will start, and then once you let go of the key, it bogs down, and backfires through the carb. I'm though maybe I had a plug wire crossed, but that wasn't it. Too much fuel? Timing off? Thanks.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

one word....TIMING

[69GTOby]

Yep, I thought so. I am going to go out and buy a timing gun. I can get my buddy that lives right down the street to help me. He's a car guy... He's got a '65 Shelby Cobra with the big block 427 (not a kit, a realy Shelby) not that anyone on this forum would care. haha

[G6T8O]

Sure we do...We use them to block the tires when we have to jack our cars up!!

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

If you own a Real 427 Shelby you are qualified to fire up an old Goat?

[Red_Rider]

If you pull all of your plugs, and hook the timing light up, you can turn the car over and check the timing without it running. I use this method to verify initial timing, or to check timing on an engine that is giving me problems. Also, turning it over with the plugs out will help clear the cylinders of excess gas build up from turning it over and it not starting.

[G6T8O]

This has to be A record for the longest thread on this site....

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

If you pull all of your plugs, and hook the timing light up, you can turn the car over and check the timing without it running. I use this method to verify initial timing, or to check timing on an engine that is giving me problems. Also, turning it over with the plugs out will help clear the cylinders of excess gas build up from turning it over and it not starting.
Now thats good advice. IF the timing marks are correct...........put in brand new plugs and it should start right up!

[69GTOby]

Alright guys thanks a lot. I should have the goat running in no time.

[69GTOby]

The timing is 9 BTDC, right? 9 below top dead center...

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Just static time it at 9 BTDC put in new plugs and see if she runs or removes your eyebrows.

[Red_Rider]

That's "before top dead center," not "below top dead center." Technical point for the beginner.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Alright guys thanks a lot. I should have the goat running in no time.
Any bets?

[G6T8O]

Giving ODDS ??

[Red_Rider]

Oh, heavens, not another technical discussion. Could it be that either is correct? Perhaps, the common useage referring to the timing marks on the balancer as opposed to the technical position of the piston. What is a person to do????

Okay, so I broke out the books. In a text, The Auto Book (Second Edition), by William H. Crouse and Donald L. Anglin, BTDC is defined as: "Abbreviation for before top dead center; any position of the piston between bottom dead center and top dead center, on the upward stroke." Also, in pictures within the text, it shows the piston on the upstroke and defines it as "before top dead center," never as "below top dead center."

I tried to find it in one of my Motors Manuals, but couldn't find it defined. However, I did find some very detailed trouble shooting instuctions on how to determine why your engine won't start. Maybe GTO Boy should read those.

This is an "EDIT." While putting away my 'Auto Book,' I grabbed my "Chilton's Auto Repair Manual 1973-1980." In a Pontiac tune-up chart, it defines the "B" and in "12B" as "Before Top Dead Center."

Anyway, I'll stick with my earlier definition of BTDC that there was potential for a bet regarding its accuracy. No wonder this thread goes on for ever.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Well ya just know that new carb was gonna make everything alright. lol

[G6T8O]

Yea but, only if you use the secret chant!!! lol

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Yea but, only if you use the secret chant!!! lol
Very true............hmmmmmm do we give it up or let him guess?

[G6T8O]

He may be A little young for some of them words....lol

[69GTOby]

Oh, heavens, not another technical discussion. Could it be that either is correct? Perhaps, the common useage referring to the timing marks on the balancer as opposed to the technical position of the piston. What is a person to do????

Okay, so I broke out the books. In a text, The Auto Book (Second Edition), by William H. Crouse and Donald L. Anglin, BTDC is defined as: "Abbreviation for before top dead center; any position of the piston between bottom dead center and top dead center, on the upward stroke." Also, in pictures within the text, it shows the piston on the upstroke and defines it as "before top dead center," never as "below top dead center."

I tried to find it in one of my Motors Manuals, but couldn't find it defined. However, I did find some very detailed trouble shooting instuctions on how to determine why your engine won't start. Maybe GTO Boy should read those.

This is an "EDIT." While putting away my 'Auto Book,' I grabbed my "Chilton's Auto Repair Manual 1973-1980." In a Pontiac tune-up chart, it defines the "B" and in "12B" as "Before Top Dead Center."

Anyway, I'll stick with my earlier definition of BTDC that there was potential for a bet regarding its accuracy. No wonder this thread goes on for ever.

Haha. Yea when you corrected me I was thinking, "isn't that relatively the smae thing." Before, below, either way works. Anyway, about the GTO. If you bet that I was going to have it startred... I am truly sorry. I dont really think its my fault though. I was about to go try some of the suggestions made, and the damn thing wouldnt even crank. I was tired of not having a battery charger, so I went out and got one. I left the charger on over night (my new charger shuts off when full) and the next day it was finished. I put it in, and again- nothing. It just makes a clicking sound. It will make one loud click, followed by a series of faint clicks that will go on for as long as you hold the key. So it I would turn the key completely off, and then back on many times, I was thinking if I did this maybe the solenoid would finally engage the starter. Then, i looked under the car and saw smoke coming off the starter. THis really pissed me off because this is a relatively new starter. I supose the solenoid is a fault here, correct me if I am wrong.

[G6T8O]

Drop the starter,take it down to the auto parts store and have it tested or replaced under warranty... Also have the battery checked... NEVER leave the key in start mode more than a couple seconds when the engine won't crank..the wiring cannot take the heat!!
Good Luck

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Drop the starter,take it down to the auto parts store and have it tested or replaced under warranty... Also have the battery checked... NEVER leave the key in start mode more than a couple seconds when the engine won't crank..the wiring cannot take the heat!!
Good Luck
Better yet, bring it to a real mechanic. What ever happened to the Cobra guy?

[69GTOby]

Ok, I got some advice from a friend of my cousin who is currently enrolled in a hot rodding UTI program. He said to tap on the starter, because maybe the solenoid is stuck. Phil, (the Cobra guy) also suggested this. So I turned the key, and held it with a rope (the key was only turned for about 2 seconds). I looked underneath, and was about to tap on the starter solenoid when thick white smoke came rushing out of where the flywheel is, and off the starter. I quickly disengaged the starter (this all happened in about 3 seconds, worry not). I think maybe the smoke I was seeing in one of my first threads is related to the smoke I saw this time. Then, I just got underneath, and tapped on the starter, and the solenoid, all over. I gave the key one quick turn, and still no luck.

I told you about the battery being charged, so it should be good.

The Cobra guy, Philip, is often busy, and just doesn't have the time.

I guess I should drop the starter now, huh?

Btw, when I was under there I noticed the left muffler (driver's side) was all beat up. The thin sheet metal that wraps around the starter was all bent up. You think someone shoved a potato up in my muffler?! Just kidding. :D

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Better yet, bring it to a real mechanic. What ever happened to the Cobra guy?
Get a real mechanic

[REED_RACING]

Reading this stuff is too funny! I cannot stop laughing! This guy has pulled a good joke.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Reading this stuff is too funny! I cannot stop laughing! This guy has pulled a good joke.
I believe he hasn't a clue, but it has been fun...

[theJUDGE]

He gave it away when he stated "he turned the key, held it with a rope, & then looked underneath".

[G6T8O]

But only for" two seconds"!!

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Ok, I got some advice from a friend of my cousin who is currently enrolled in a hot rodding UTI program. He said to tap on the starter, because maybe the solenoid is stuck. Phil, (the Cobra guy) also suggested this. So I turned the key, and held it with a rope (the key was only turned for about 2 seconds). I looked underneath, and was about to tap on the starter solenoid when thick white smoke came rushing out of where the flywheel is, and off the starter. I quickly disengaged the starter (this all happened in about 3 seconds, worry not). I think maybe the smoke I was seeing in one of my first threads is related to the smoke I saw this time. Then, I just got underneath, and tapped on the starter, and the solenoid, all over. I gave the key one quick turn, and still no luck.

I told you about the battery being charged, so it should be good.

The Cobra guy, Philip, is often busy, and just doesn't have the time.

I guess I should drop the starter now, huh?

Btw, when I was under there I noticed the left muffler (driver's side) was all beat up. The thin sheet metal that wraps around the starter was all bent up. You think someone shoved a potato up in my muffler?! Just kidding. :D
So banging on starters with hammers is part of the teaching process at UTI? Sign me up!!! I ain't never werkd ona ponniac b'for

[G6T8O]

Kin eye kopy yer noots??

[69GTOby]

I am surprised if you've never heard of that trick, the tap on the starter trick. Earlier on this thread many of you were making lists you were so proud of, lists of materials you used to jump cars. If you can be except the guy that uses hay bailing wire, or whatever to start his GTO, you can except the guy who tried tapping on the starter to free up a possibly stuck starter solenoid. Well, I removed the starter nonetheless, and I am going to go get it tested at a local automotive store.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Look up the definition of 'sarcasm'. If the solenoid is not reliable...tapping is not the fix. Since you saw smoke come from the starter area pulling the starter is going in the right direction, not that you need any direction (refer to first sentence).

[THUNDERGOAT]

you must be the only 15 year old in North America without access to a camera and a PC..

I would also love to see the REAL cobra while your at it.