What headers? system?

[69GTOby]

This is for a '69 GTO that's mostly stock... Realistically, this car wont see many performance upgrades anytime soon besides the headers and exhaust system that are soon to come. It's just a street car with some goodies.

Headers: I am thinking of a pair of Hedman headers with 1 3/4" primary tubes, and a 3" collector. Are the 1 3/4 primaries a good size for my application? I don't want to spend more that $200. Any suggestions? Oh, I noticed some headers only had 3 primary tubes per-bank, the headers with 4 primary tubes per-bank would be better, right?

System: According to my research, X pipes provide a little more power than H pipes. Should I go with an X or H or, any equalizer system at all? I suppose if I want to see any significant gains, I should go with an X or H, correct? Also, here's the big question: 2.5" or 3" system? Evidently, 3" sounds really badass, which would be cool, but would it be "overkill" for my mild street application? I think about $250 is my max for a system.

Thanks!

[Unknown_Authority]

In my opinion, headers are a waste of money on a mostly stock GTO. They tend to leak and give you little performance advantage over the factory Ram Air Headers. They also make changing the oil filter and starter a huge hassle. I'd recommend getting a set of the D-Port Headers here.
http://www.ramairrestoration.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=31_2_21

They also sell a complete exhaust system that includes the headers. Many of the other Pontiac aftermarket companies sell complete exhaust systems from the header pipe to the exhaust tips. Performance Years has their PYPES systems and you can buy stock/original pipes from Ames too.
Just a thought...

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

This is for a '69 GTO that's mostly stock... Realistically, this car wont see many performance upgrades anytime soon besides the headers and exhaust system that are soon to come. It's just a street car with some goodies.
I think about $250 is my max for a system.

Thanks!

Better head over to Midas then.
I agree with UA tube headers are prone to leaking and poor fit. You will not only have oil filter issues but on the drivers side you will be crushing the #1 tube for the steering. The factory RamairI cast iron header is the only choice. But not for $250 bucks.

[G6T8O]

And your starter won't like the added heat!!

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

And your starter won't like the added heat!!

+1
You are so right Bill. The starter has to come out for the install of the headers and then they are almost impossible to get back in, let alone wire and then it will fail from the header pipe being so close to the solenoid...so then you figure ya better drop the header to help get the smoked starter out and replace the header gaskets that John mentioned because they were already smoked and leaking because the engine, body, header clearances were so close when you get on it the engine flexes upward from the drivers side which in turn brings the header against the frame stretching and warping the header to head flange...need I go on? Cast iron headers forever!

[Goatnut]

I've also heard that 3" exhaust over 2.5" is money wasted unless you are pushing serious HP. Definately no large performance value in going 3" on a stock engine. I am not sure that you would see much HP gain in switching to the ram air manifiolds.

Around these parts....you will spend a great deal more that $250 for a complete dual exhaust system. With your budget it sounds like you should invest in a standard exhaust job but upgrade to some good free flowing mufflers and possibly the "X" pipe.

Besides, a good sounding exhaust will make you think the performance has improved....LOL

[gto65lvr]

My two cents run RARE HO manifolds more HP than stock logs and fit nice for a stock Pontiyak power will be probably single digit HP increase.

However I do believe they are like 3 or 400 bucks. I Happen to have a set of HO manifolds than came off my 67 they are repops with the stock size opening I will sell them for 200.00 bucks if you want them I also have the flanges they are just fine that are connected to part of barely used down pipes that are from a 2.5" pipe flanges the pipes were stepped up in size. so all yagotta do is have the muffler shop weld them onto a new set of 2.5" pipes or cut the flanges off and put on stock size down pipe. I would also rec. the X pipe it does help but you will not notice much of anything on a stock motor but down the road it will be a help but once again small HP gains

I am building a blower motor so will prob go with the headache of Dougs headers and the cost because of the needed flow for 600hp +

I am in vancouver, wa send me a message if you want them I can always ship them if you want them. Otherwise they sit in the shop until I may use them. I also have a set of 2" pre bent tail pipes that look almost new from the muffler shop I used for about 1000 miles. I ont have a use for them anymore will sell for 40 bucks with the other stuff but that would require a pick up on those. then all you need is two mufflers and the pipes to the manifolds.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Eric,
He's a dreamer from NY area. Midas is in his budjet.

[G6T8O]

Eric ...I am interested in you manifold's...I'm in the seattle area..

[69GTOby]

Hmmm. I was looking at headers for the power increase, if none exists, or the gain is minute, and it's not worth the hassle, then i'll probably just stick to the stock manifolds. It's almost hard to believe that aftermarket headers can impose such problems: having to crush a primary tube to clear the steering shaft, overheating the starter, clearance issues, leaking gaskets, etc... You'd think the manufacturer of the headers would have considered these issues. I have a terrible leaking manifold gasket, so I was considering that as an additional excuse to put on some headers... never mind. Haha I already have to repair a leaking gasket without headers. I'll keep the manifolds and replace the gasket...

As for the system. I really want some good sound. The Flowmaster Thunder series (2.5", H pipe, 40 series mufflers) is $250 at Summit. Is this not a good system? Why do I need to spend upwards of $500 on a system? Well, since I wont be getting headers, I can spend a little more $$ on the system I suppose. I cant justify spending so much when the car is in despirate need of a LOT of bodywork.

I have a 650 Holley now. Should I invest in a good intake manifold? Maybe a dual plane or something, and a carb spacer...

[69GTOby]

In my opinion, headers are a waste of money on a mostly stock GTO. They tend to leak and give you little performance advantage over the factory Ram Air Headers. They also make changing the oil filter and starter a huge hassle. I'd recommend getting a set of the D-Port Headers here.
http://www.ramairrestoration.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=31_2_21

They also sell a complete exhaust system that includes the headers. Many of the other Pontiac aftermarket companies sell complete exhaust systems from the header pipe to the exhaust tips. Performance Years has their PYPES systems and you can buy stock/original pipes from Ames too.
Just a thought...

Wow, they have some cool systems there. I'm really diggin the side pipe systems. I have air shocks in the rear, and I like having them pumped up. Side pipes would look sweet with the rear pumped up! And, it'd be a little different than the traditional split rear set-up.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Hmmm. I'll keep the manifolds and replace the gasket...

When you replace the gaskets buy the copper replacement gaskets. Do not use the stock metal ones or those crappy 'composite' ones

[69GTOby]

When you replace the gaskets buy the copper replacement gaskets. Do not use the stock metal ones or those crappy 'composite' ones

We'll do thanks for the tip.
Also, since I'm keeping the stock manifolds, I'll either need new downpipes that convert to 2.5", or an adapter on the current 2.25" down pipe. The current/stock down pipe looks like it doesn't flow very well. It takes a near 45* angle up to the manifold, and the corner is crush bent, and is probably like 2" or so. Should I buy better downpipes?

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

We'll do thanks for the tip.
Also, since I'm keeping the stock manifolds, I'll either need new downpipes that convert to 2.5", or an adapter on the current 2.25" down pipe. The current/stock down pipe looks like it doesn't flow very well. It takes a near 45* angle up to the manifold, and the corner is crush bent, and is probably like 2" or so. Should I buy better downpipes?

Midas, Mienkie, Walts or any other muffler shop over there will know what to do with the pipes. If you buy mufflers don't go flowmasters. Buy Flow-Tech Terminators less restrictive and sound WAY better than flowmasters!!

[69GTOby]

Midas, Mienkie, Walts or any other muffler shop over there will know what to do with the pipes. If you buy mufflers don't go flowmasters. Buy Flow-Tech Terminators less restrictive and sound WAY better than flowmasters!!

I will buy mufflers. My current mufflers are very quiet, one has a busted up casing, and they are 2.25" which is not enough. I'll check out those mufflers. Maybe I'll get a kit without mufflers, and then buy those separate. Thanks.

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

You can buy a system that includes those mufflers from www.summitracing.com
Post a picture of your car. We don't care if you don't think it is nice enough to post. We like all the cars regardless of condition.

[69GTOby]

You can buy a system that includes those mufflers from www.summitracing.com
Post a picture of your car. We don't care if you don't think it is nice enough to post. We like all the cars regardless of condition.

I did not see a system on Summit with flow-tech mufflers...? I never said it wasn't nice enough to post a picture of. There's a picture of the engine in my profile thing. I'll see if I can get a full picture of the car up on here.

[G6T8O]

Mike ...Are you running these on any of your cars?

[69GTOby]

1785

[HOTROD64-STOCK69]

Mike ...Are you running these on any of your cars?

Bill,
Yes of couse, I have this on the '64.
I bought the 3" X-kit, Flow-tech Treminators mufflers from Summit. The 3" tail pipes and SS tips from Pypes Exhaust Spec and I fabricated the pipes from the RA cast headers to the X myself.
Mike

[G6T8O]

Ok..I was curius if I had heard them...Your right..They do sound good!